How to get OVH to respect the Plesk reseller agreement ?!?

[AndreasY]

Hi, as per title

This is what they post back to us (or something on similar lines) every time we ask for assistance with an issue we have with the Plesk CP purchased from themselves.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Andreas,

Thank you for contacting OVH Support.

As an unmanaged service provider, we are limited to the software support that we can provide. You have full root/administrator access to your server and are free to configure it in any way that suits your requirements. We are not permitted to login to any server, and we do not have a copy of the login details to do so.

OVH manage the following for you:-

Server hardware
Power and network availability
Console access availability
Control panel license availability (if the license has been ordered via OVH)

But you will need to look after and configure:-

All server software, operating systems, and performance
Configuring hosting and email settings
Securing your server outside of our DDOS protection
Network configuration - You're responsible for configuration of your network. This includes IP address configuration and DNS settings.
Default settings for basic configuration will be set up after initial server setup, but any further changes or amendments are your responsibility, this includes keeping your password safe, up-to-date, and making sure you remember it.
Installation of third-party modules and plug-ins

If you have any problems managing your server because you do not have a system administrator you may consider contacting an OVH partner for support using the following link: {{metaTitle}}

Kind Regards,
Ollie N.
OVH IE Support Team

Our support: Mon - Fri: 9 am to 6 pm GMT | +353 1 293 7844
Our guides: OVH documentation | OVH Guides
Our maintenance: OVH Tasks  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So how do we get them to stop doing this ??????

Thanks

 

[MarkM]

What's the issue you're actually having?

 

[AndreasY]

What's the issue you're actually having?

Hi Mark,

does it matter what issue I am having with regards to the question I posted ?

I want to know if Plesk actually value the 'Partners' they have or as with most organizations its only about the $$$.

Because, if Plesk has licensing agreements with their resellers and these resellers do not respect those agreements I want to know who responsibility that is.

My understanding is that that responsibility lies with Plesk, but obviously my understanding could be wrong.

So I am hoping that someone who represent Plesk will be forthcoming with a clear and concise answer as to why we cant get official support from OVH who are a Plesk partner and what they will do to stop such 'partners' from neglecting their responsibilities.

Because in this moment in time, if we were to have a real serious issue, our clients and ourselves will be left in no mans land because as of this time both OVH and Plesk have absolved themselves of all responsibilities of support for the product we have purchased.

Just to clarify my last sentance, a public support forum is not a resource that we should have to depend on in time critical situations.

In time critical situations we have NO ONE to turn to but ourselves.

Thanks

 

[Roman Basalyko]

Hi Andreas,

Sorry to hear that OVH refused to deliver support to its customer.

Plesk by default provides support only for users who purchased the license directly from our online store while partners/re-sellers support their customers (on their infrastructure) on their own and using own policies. Unfortunately contractual obligations of our partners with their customers is out of our scope. However I hear you and we will work with OVH to see how it can be resolved in strategic perspective.

Meanwhile whenever you need a support from Plesk please feel free to subscribe for it ( like it's described here How to get support directly from Plesk? ) and we will be glad to serve you.

Roman Basalyko
VP of Support

 

[AndreasY]

Hi Roman,

Unfortunately contractual obligations of our partners with their customers is out of our scope

Contractual obligation of your partners with their customers, yes I agree in your statement.

But what about Plesk contractual obligations with its 'Partners' towards their customers ??

Im very sorry, although your response is satisfactory, the actual dynamics of the partnership Plesk have with OVH and how it effects us reeks of neglect of responsibilities from both parties.

Meanwhile whenever you need a support from Plesk please feel free to subscribe for it ( like it's described here How to get support directly from Plesk? ) and we will be glad to serve you.

Does feeling 'free to subscribe' mean we dont have to pay for support? I think not and this is the issue.

You have a Plesk partner who dont mind selling us the products as is and then we have Plesk who dont want to support their product unless we pay for a ticket.

And from past experience the two times we required to open a ticket our issue was not resolved by the Plesk technicians in a timely manner but was resolved by a Plesk update which came months after we had our issue (I fondly remember *NOT* how they wanted us to do a bare metal install on our server saying it was a server mis-configuration, thank God I didnt follow their advice........).

Anyhow at least I now understand that Plesk have no desire to stand by their products unless the support is paid for.

Fortunately there are at least these forums where we can discuss with fellow 'Pleskians' about our issues where Plesk support staff occasionally provide some good insight.

 

[Roman Basalyko]

Hi Andreas,

There is no necessity to pay for a ticket. The subscription I mentioned provides free 30 days trial support and then unlimited amount of incidents/tickets for only $10/mo. Resellers/partners may or may not include that fee into the price of their licenses and it's their business. The licenses which are sold directly from Plesk online store already have unlimited support included by default.

I'm also wondering what time period is under "past experience" as we have been investing a lot into the quality of service last couple years. Would you mind to provide me (here or in direct message) exact tickets' numbers and I'll be glad to investigate why it took so long and why solution was not satisfactory for you?

 

[AndreasY]

Hi Roman, thanks for the clarification of how to get 30 days free trial, obviously after that support is a paid for service.

Yes, the incident I referred to above was in 2014, out of the 2 year period you have referenced.

Here is the ticket number 'Parallels #1976476', but really there is no need to investigate we spent alot of time working with our Plesk partner at the time and directly with a Plesk technician.

This was the closing paragraph from the Plesk technician

======================================================================================
Hello,

As I can see from the ticket history, we have provided you with a solution about MS DNS issue.

Please, be informed that it is better to avoid using Parallels Request Tracker for internal communication.

If you have any further questions regarding this issue, please, let us know.

This case will be placed in the "Pending Confirmation by Customer" status.

Best regards,
--
Alex (obfuscated)
Technical Support Engineer
|| Parallels
======================================================================================

The 'solution' was NOT to use MS DNS, but BIND DNS (a band aid that did not find the cause of the issue, it was nothing to do with the WMI on the server as was insinuated at the time).

In reality it is hoped we would never need to open another ticket and resolve all the issues by ourselves, however, at least you have informed me of a 30 day period if which something 'stops us in out tracks' we can use this option to get a response from Plesk in a timely manner.

 

[Roman Basalyko]

Ok, understand your disappointment about that case. I wish your Plesk works w/o any issues but should you need any help please feel free to contact us.

 

[AndreasY]

Ok, understand your disappointment about that case. I wish your Plesk works w/o any issues but should you need any help please feel free to contact us.

We wish the same thing too, trust me on that

 

[trialotto]

@Roman Basalyko

The statement

There is no necessity to pay for a ticket. The subscription I mentioned provides free 30 days trial support and then unlimited amount of incidents/tickets for only $10/mo. Resellers/partners may or may not include that fee into the price of their licenses and it's their business. The licenses which are sold directly from Plesk online store already have unlimited support included by default.

is not very well-known to most Plesk customers.

In essence, it is a decent price for something that should not be necessary and, to some extent (!), should be free of charge.

In my humble opinion, any kind of valuable technical feedback by the customer - such as bug reports - and specific solutions provided by Plesk or Plesk Team - such as bug fixes - should not be part of a paid-for support system and support model.

As a result, any other kind of support request can become eligible for a paid-for support system and support model.

Leaving the "domain of opinions" and looking from a legal perspective : Plesk can charge any price that Plesk wants to ask for support, as long as customers are wanting to agree with the offer and conditions with respect to (paid-for) support, unless support should be provided as a consequence of the license agreemeent concerning Plesk.

In short, Plesk cannot charge for support involving known bugs, certainly not if those known bugs are confirmed by Plesk Team and/or planned to be patched.

Sure, there is "freedom of agreement", but the above will always prevail in court above that freedom of agreement.

In conclusion, my (legal) advice would be

1 - make crystal clear that this (reasonable) support option

There is no necessity to pay for a ticket. The subscription I mentioned provides free 30 days trial support and then unlimited amount of incidents/tickets for only $10/mo. Resellers/partners may or may not include that fee into the price of their licenses and it's their business. The licenses which are sold directly from Plesk online store already have unlimited support included by default.

is available to Plesk customers, (and)

2 - make crystal clear that Plesk license selling partners are not obliged to offer support, (and)

3 - allow Plesk license holders, even when they purchased licenses elsewhere, to get paid-for support by Plesk easily.

Why am I giving this type of "advice"?

It is a decent opportunity to end all discussions about support related issues.

Kind regards......

 

[trialotto]

@AndreasY

Even though I am grateful that you started this thread and posted

Hi Mark,

does it matter what issue I am having with regards to the question I posted ?

I want to know if Plesk actually value the 'Partners' they have or as with most organizations its only about the $$$.

Because, if Plesk has licensing agreements with their resellers and these resellers do not respect those agreements I want to know who responsibility that is.

My understanding is that that responsibility lies with Plesk, but obviously my understanding could be wrong.

So I am hoping that someone who represent Plesk will be forthcoming with a clear and concise answer as to why we cant get official support from OVH who are a Plesk partner and what they will do to stop such 'partners' from neglecting their responsibilities.

Because in this moment in time, if we were to have a real serious issue, our clients and ourselves will be left in no mans land because as of this time both OVH and Plesk have absolved themselves of all responsibilities of support for the product we have purchased.

Just to clarify my last sentance, a public support forum is not a resource that we should have to depend on in time critical situations.

In time critical situations we have NO ONE to turn to but ourselves.

Thanks

I also have my concerns about the "purity" of your arguments : it is a combination of intertwined, but objectively unrelated issues and consequences of those issues.

Sure, I do agree with you that the lack of proper information is causing a lot of problems - problems that should not have been there if sufficient information is present.

In addition, I do agree to some extent that Plesk should provide some support free of charge and/or cannot charge for specific types of support.

Nevertheless, it is not about that - your issue is caused by the refusal of OVH to provide decent support : the root cause of the problem.

As a result, you have to address Plesk and ask Plesk support team - which support they cannot offer, unless under the exception of an agreement in the area of a paid-for support system and support model : you only have a license agreement with OVH (and not with Plesk), Plesk is to some extent limited by the license agreement (that you have with OVH) and Plesk can only enter an agremeent with you by offering paid-for support.

In a sense, the viewpoint provided by Plesk or Plesk Staff is valid, unless this viewpoint is concerning known and confirmed bugs in Plesk.

In short, the root cause of the problem (refusal by OVH to provide decent support) is aggravated by the lack of information with respect to support related obligations.

The above does not imply that the lack of information is some root cause of the current problem : it is just increasing the issue created by OVH.

In conclusion, since you only have an agreement with OVH - it is OVH that should have given you support, if and only if that is part of the agreement!

Now, I am sure that OVH will not and shall never include in its agreements that they will provide decent support : it is not the nature of OVH.

My humble advice to you : just get another hosting provider, since this issue is very likely to re-occur in the near or far away future, as long as you stay with OVH.

Hope the above helps a bit...... or explains the situation a bit.......

Regards............

 

[AndreasY]

Hi, thanks for your post

I also have my concerns about the "purity" of your arguments : it is a combination of intertwined, but objectively unrelated issues and consequences of those issues.

Im guessing you are using "purity" as you are unsure about the intent of the thread I started.

Though I am unsure, in what way one could see the intent of the thread as being 'derogatory' (the most standout reason would be someone wishing to taint plesk in a bad light). You could have looked at my past post history to see that I am a valid Plesk user who mainly comes to post when an issue that I cannot resolve occurs.

Sure, I do agree with you that the lack of proper information is causing a lot of problems - problems that should not have been there if sufficient information is present.

You sort of hit the 'nail on the head' in that its the lack of clear and concise information from Plesk and its partners (in my case OVH), that led me to start this thread as I wanted to know who responsibility it was to provide support for their products.

And this occurred because OVH clearly dont want to provide support for the product they sell for the 'Partner' and when in the past I went to this Plesk page and entered our Plesk product key we are directed to the reseller for support, who obviously dont want to offer support for their 'Partners' product.

This should not happen i.e. to be given the runaround from an automated system.

Also have seen other forum posts, here and here at the Plesk forum with the same issue with OVH, but who received a different answer as to what to do, hence the reason for my thread.

So although I do understand somewhat your reasoning for using the word 'purity' since you dont know me or who I am, i think it was a little unfair of you.

The important thing, which I am very appreciated of, is that we have another user (yourselves) who has provided a well presented post that 'in a nut shell' has eloquently described the current issue that we are facing with Plesk and its 'Partners'.

In conclusion, since you only have an agreement with OVH - it is OVH that should have given you support, if and only if that is part of the agreement!

The thing is we do not know what agreement Plesk and OVH have, so without this knowledge, we are no position to draw any sort of conclusions.

The first response that Roman gave, gave no insight to that (the agreement Plesk have with its 'Partners').

My humble advice to you : just get another hosting provider, since this issue is very likely to re-occur in the near or far away future, as long as you stay with OVH.

That you have in your signature not so 'pure' comment regards OVH (sorry could help myself with the dig ) I can understand that you must have had a bad experience with them.

So far (almost two years), I have been happy with what we have from OVH (although we had some 'teething' issues in the first month or so). We understand that our server is self managed, so as long as the hardware and infrastructure is in place and working as should we will stay with them.

As for any 'support', yes, its like trying to get 'blood from a stone'.

It is hoped that Plesk will pay attention to this issue and give it more 'respect'

 

[trialotto]

@AndreasY

I can reassure you by commenting to your statement

Im guessing you are using "purity" as you are unsure about the intent of the thread I started.

Though I am unsure, in what way one could see the intent of the thread as being 'derogatory' (the most standout reason would be someone wishing to taint plesk in a bad light). You could have looked at my past post history to see that I am a valid Plesk user who mainly comes to post when an issue that I cannot resolve occurs.

with the remark "no worries mate, just give them hell" .

Or the more neutral remark : in no way whatsoever I questionned your personal intentions, since it is crystal clear to me that you make a valid point in an objective way.

My personal intention was simply to point out that we have to keep the discussion about this (important) topic restrained to pure arguments, amongst others to allow Plesk to validate the issue and to contact some specific Plesk partners and/or to take appropriate action - in any other way suitable.

With respect to the statement

Also have seen other forum posts, here and here at the Plesk forum with the same issue with OVH, but who received a different answer as to what to do, hence the reason for my thread.

I must admit that I am a little bit biased : I did not like OVH, do not like OVH and will never like OVH.

For me personally, it is not only the lack of proper support, but there are also more severe issues at hand : for instance (read: just one example of the many), for a company that is proud of their own DDoS protection, it is rather odd that they were often subject to and sometimes completely down as a result of DDoS attacks - some of which were even coming from inside their own network : it is basic 101 that internal DDoS should not be possible at all.

Just get another hosting provider, that is my simple advice to anyone using OVH.

To follow up on your statement

The thing is we do not know what agreement Plesk and OVH have, so without this knowledge, we are no position to draw any sort of conclusions.

The first response that Roman gave, gave no insight to that (the agreement Plesk have with its 'Partners').

I have to mention that it is not required to have knowledge about agreements between Plesk and its partners.

In a legal sense or from a legal perspective, there is only a limited number of relevant agreements in this case, being

1 - the agreement between Plesk and it's partner : you put too much emphasis on this, it is outside of our reach - in a legal sense, (and)

2 - the agreement between you and the Plesk Partner (OVH in this case) : this is the only relevant agreement - not only in a legal sense, but also in a practical sense (read: you chose to forego the option to get the license directly from Plesk, hence making a choice that, as a consequence, results in a legally binding agreement with OVH)

and, summarized, you are bound only by the terms and conditions associated with the agreement with OVH.

Sure, Plesk can try to enforce Plesk Partners to provide some support, but that type of enforcement is commonly not legally binding.

However, Plesk can use your story (i.e. issue with OVH) to alter agreements with Plesk Partners to make enforcements (of any kind) more probable, even though it still has to be said that it is very difficult to ascertain (read: make 100% certain) that Plesk Partners will abide to the agreements : support cannot be qualified easily, can it?

Simply stated, Plesk can adjust partner agreements to have more tools to enforce that Plesk Partners at least make some minimal support effort.

In addition, like I stated before, Plesk can also improve their own support model and support system - at least in terms of providing sufficient information about support.

To finalize this nice discussion, your statement

So far (almost two years), I have been happy with what we have from OVH (although we had some 'teething' issues in the first month or so). We understand that our server is self managed, so as long as the hardware and infrastructure is in place and working as should we will stay with them.

can be answered with : I strongly recommend to be prepared for the most odd and unlikely scenario's - or, simply stated, be prepared to migrate before accidents happen!

Consider yourself lucky if you did not have major mishappenings at OVH - but being lucky is not a good fundament for rock-solid decisions.

Regards......

 

[BigMaras]

I just wanted to add that the same situation is in Hetzner. Similar like OVH, Hetzner is reseller of Plesk and I bought plesk pro license with server but when I had problem first I created ticket in Plesk and I received information form plesk stuff that my license was not bought directly from plesk so they couldn't help me in anything and I have to contact with reseller, so I conntacted after this message with Hetzner and I received information that they do not help in any case with software only with hardware

In my opinion should be clear information on every reseller page and to be honest on Plesk website - If you want any support you have to buy only directly from Plesk, If you buy from any reseller you buying only license without any support, nobody help you with problem !!!

 

[MarkM]

honest on Plesk website?

It's laid out pretty directly; How to get support directly from Plesk?

 

[BigMaras]

honest on Plesk website?

It's laid out pretty directly; How to get support directly from Plesk?

Yes, honest...

Non of plesk resellers inform that selling "not full" license on plesk. This is not fair in my opinion and I have to tell even more - it is little cheating clients. When I bought plesk pro I was pretty sure that I'm buying legally, full software with support but after couple days I had knowledge that I was wrong. I'm buying many software licenses from many reselers every month and never in my life I saw something like this. Information under your link is hide under tons of other topics. Why you do not add this info more visual for clients?

I saw couple answears from plesk stuff that "resellers are trained and should help" so I have to explain you one thing - OVH and HETZNER - will never help with plesk so this is also good infromation for clients opposite to "go to your reseller for support".