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Move spam to the Spam folder is availabe even if there is no mailbox

Discussion in 'Plesk 10.x for Linux Issues, Fixes, How-To' started by lhwparis, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. lhwparis

    lhwparis Guest

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    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    PRODUCT, VERSION, OPERATING SYSTEM, ARCHITECTURE
    PLESK, 10.x, all, all

    PROBLEM DESCRIPTION AND STEPS TO REPRODUCE
    I can chose "Move spam to the Spam folder" even if this e-mail adress is just a forward adress and has no mailbox what happens with this emails?

    ACTUAL RESULT
    -

    EXPECTED RESULT
    it should not be possible to chose this option with no mailbox available because there is no SPAM folder.

    ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
    BTW: Why is it not possbile to Mark spam messages AND move them to a Spam folder (for e-mail adresses with mailboxes)
    BTW²: Why is there no option by "server wide spam filter settings" to move spam to a special folder?
    BTW³: why is it not possible to allow individual spam filter settings but use the server wide settings as default settings for a new mail account??
    BTW: Why is there no option to chose the folder where spam is moved to? Most MailPrograms call this folder Junk and it could cause problems because Plesk call it Spam and its not changeable
    --------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2011
  2. IgorG

    IgorG Forums Analyst Staff Member

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    Forwarded to developers too.
     
  3. lhwparis

    lhwparis Guest

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    thanks igor. is there any roundwork for all my "BTWs"?
    especially the last one. is it possible to change that folder anywhere?
     
  4. IgorG

    IgorG Forums Analyst Staff Member

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    I have received following reply:

    > I can chose "Move spam to the Spam folder" even if this e-mail adress is just a forward adress and has no mailbox what happens with this emails?
    You can't set forward mode if mail account has not been created. So you always have a mailbox even you have set forwarding. There are all before-local mail handlers works for mail forwarding too. So you will filter a spam and move it into folder anyway.

    1. Why is it not possbile to Mark spam messages AND move them to a Spam folder (for e-mail adresses with mailboxes)
    Actually you can choose the spamfilter mode for the mail account.
    Follow: Control Panel(for subscription) -> Mail -> Spam Filter

    there's a spamtrain utility for training spam filter. It executes by daily maintenance script at once a day. So we can't to mark spam and move them immediately. We should wait a some time until spamtrain marks the letter as the spam. We can't train spamfilter immediately because there is a performance issue.

    2. Why is there no option by "server wide spam filter settings" to move spam to a special folder?
    Because spamfilter saves his spam/ham databases for every mailbox into mailbox folders. It actually works for per-mailname checking only.

    3. why is it not possible to allow individual spam filter settings but use the server wide settings as default settings for a new mail account??
    it is a performance issue. spamassassin is a very heavy filter. And we got a much performance regression then spamassassin is enabled by default.

    4. Why is there no option to chose the folder where spam is moved to?
    That mail programs call such folder "Junk" ? There are two supported webmail clients by Plesk: horde, atmail. And They use a .Spam folder. But you can patch the spamtrain utility for using another(or multiple) folder for training.

     
  5. lhwparis

    lhwparis Guest

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    Thanks for the detailed answer Igor! Some answers below:

    > I can chose "Move spam to the Spam folder" even if this e-mail adress is just a forward adress and has no mailbox what happens with this emails?
    You can't set forward mode if mail account has not been created. So you always have a mailbox even you have set forwarding. There are all before-local mail handlers works for mail forwarding too. So you will filter a spam and move it into folder anyway.

    but i can disable "mailbox" with the checkbox and i think this is confusing for customers because they think if they disable mailbox there is no mailbox but they can choose move Spam to spam folder even if they habe disabled mailbox

    1. Why is it not possbile to Mark spam messages AND move them to a Spam folder (for e-mail adresses with mailboxes)
    Actually you can choose the spamfilter mode for the mail account.
    Follow: Control Panel(for subscription) -> Mail -> Spam Filter

    there's a spamtrain utility for training spam filter. It executes by daily maintenance script at once a day. So we can't to mark spam and move them immediately. We should wait a some time until spamtrain marks the letter as the spam. We can't train spamfilter immediately because there is a performance issue.

    but spamassassin says in its documentation its ok to learn "marked" spam because spamassassin knows his mail-header and subject entries and remove it before he "learns" the mail. so it should be possible!

    3. why is it not possible to allow individual spam filter settings but use the server wide settings as default settings for a new mail account??
    it is a performance issue. spamassassin is a very heavy filter. And we got a much performance regression then spamassassin is enabled by default.

    ok but should it not be the decission of the server admin? if his server has enough power to do that there should be a checkbox in admin settings to enable it by default? and why is there no option to use global settings as default settings for users? there is no perfomance issue they can enable their filter or not but it would be cool if you can set the suggested spam-tag to another one and the suggested filter level to another one

    4. Why is there no option to chose the folder where spam is moved to?
    That mail programs call such folder "Junk" ? There are two supported webmail clients by Plesk: horde, atmail. And They use a .Spam folder. But you can patch the spamtrain utility for using another(or multiple) folder for training

    thanks i ll edit it! ... where can i find this script?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2011
  6. IgorG

    IgorG Forums Analyst Staff Member

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    4. /usr/local/psa/admin/sbin/spamtrain

    Answers on other questions will be later.
     
  7. IgorG

    IgorG Forums Analyst Staff Member

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    There are two different processes:

    1. Spam training
    2. Action for email known as spam

    In the first case the utility spamtrain which is launched by cron of times a day is used. It takes email from the .Spam folder and marks them as spam. Mail in remaining folders is considered as ham.
    In the second case mail handler launches spamassassin and does something with email, leaning on result of check and the selected mode. Handler can leave email as marked, can move this email to .Spam folder, and can delete it.
    Notice that though email is marked as spam that when it gets in the .Spam folder it again will stumble by spamtrain. But seriously this repeated training won't affect spamassassin since spamassassin already knows about this email. Therefore select a mode "delete" if you want "remove it before he "learns" the mail"

    but i can disable "mailbox" with the checkbox and i think this is confusing for customers because they think if they disable mailbox there is no mailbox but they can choose move Spam to spam folder even if they habe disabled mailbox
    Physically mailbox exists always. Even if it is adjusted forward. Forward means in this case that your mail (after all checks) will fall in a box not on the local server but somewhere else. I agree, possible it isn't correctly. While I can advise to disable spamassassin. If people really need it, you can submit separate report about disabling of all checks for switched on forward.

    ok but should it not be the decission of the server admin? if his server has enough power to do that there should be a checkbox in admin settings to enable it by default? and why is there no option to use global settings as default settings for users? there is no perfomance issue they can enable their filter or not but it would be cool if you can set the suggested spam-tag to another one and the suggested filter level to another one
    The world isn't ideal. We have already submitted corresponding feature requests. But I can't tell when it will be implemented.
     
  8. lhwparis

    lhwparis Guest

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    thanks for your detailed answer IgorG

    yes i know this and i dont think all my feature requests are implemented tomorrow ;) i am a software developer too and know which time it take;) when you say its reported already its ok :)
     
  9. Brainwrap

    Brainwrap Guest

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    How long do I need to keep mail in the spam box?

    I recently upgraded from Plesk 8.6 (which had an older version of SpamAssassin) to 10.2. In the old version, SpamAssassin training was handled via a tab in the Plesk control panel for the specific email account.

    In the new version, it's my understanding that SA training is handled within the Webmail interface itself, by simply moving any spam directly into the pre-set spam folder.

    Fair enough, but this does raise a couple of questions:

    1. Does this work with both Horde and AtMail?
    2. Do I need to do any out-of-the-box setting changes for either Horde or AtMail in order to enable this, or is SA already hooked into each of them in the default settings?
    3. How long does spam moved into the webmail spam folder have to sit there before being deleted (ie, can the email user move them there and then immediately delete them, or do they have to wait a day or something?
    4. Is there any way of training SA to be more accurate about false *positives*? Again, in the old version, the Plesk tab included the ability to mark any mail as being spam *or* legitimate. This new version doesn't appear to include that capability.

    Thanks in advance.
     
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