Question The future of mailing list management?

[AYamshanov]

Does that mean that mailman feature is also not really available in Web Admin?

Mailman is available for WebAdmin as well as for WebPro and for WebHost. If you use WebAdmin, just skip this step because WebAdmin does not have ability to apply custom service plans, Plesk use default service plan without mentioned restrictions.

 

[AYamshanov]

Good news,

With Plesk Obsidian 18.0.59 release,

• (Plesk for Linux) We are happy to announce the support for Mailman 3 in Plesk on Debian 11 and Debian 12. Read more about Mailman 3 in Plesk.

Feel free to leave feedback in this thread as before.

 

[blindzero]

Hi @AYamshanov
Great news! However, I am wondering how you manage the certificate issue here and if it is vhost compatible?
Additionally, do people like me who tested the unofficial support habe to tested something?
Thanks,
Matthias

 

[AYamshanov]

Lack of built-in support HTTPS certificates and ARC headers for mailman2/3 in Plesk are known limitations of implementation for now (as well as supporting mailman3 only on two OSes).

We decided to start from this level of function because there is no degradation of functionality compared to mailman2; it allows customers to start switching to new OSes and mailman if they need to do that because of some reasons. Since 18.0.59 release, mailman3 on Debian11/12 OSes is officially supported by Plesk, it means if you have some issues with feature, you can contact with the Plesk Support team to get support.

Anyway, we have tasks to improve these aspect in the future, but currently, I can't say any ETA for that.

 

[mannaris]

Is there a timeline for Mailman 3 support on Ubuntu 22.04?

 

[AYamshanov]

Ubuntu 22

Mailman is not supported.

This OS does not support any Mailman version (neither Mailman 2 nor Mailman 3).

(c) (Plesk for Linux) Mailman Version

We are blocked by "Bug #1999197 “mailman3 package missing in jammy, however mailman...” : Bugs : mailman3 package : Ubuntu" and because of this we can't promise anything.

 

[Ben123]

Thanks a lot! Mailman3 works here now on Debian 11.9 and I can create new mailinglists on domains, that I did not use before with mailman2.
On domains, I used before with mailman2, I get this error message, when clicking on mailinglists.

500 TypeError​

count(): Argument #1 ($value) must be of type Countable|array, bool given

Type	TypeError
Message	count(): Argument #1 ($value) must be of type Countable|array, bool given
File	MailLists.php
Line	116

Trying to deactivate mailinglists on a domain (in order to reacitvate it) is not possible and results in this error:
Error: Unable to update MailList object:Unable to turnOnOff list: listmng failed: Error: the list '[name@domain]' does not exist

Any suggestions?

 

[AYamshanov]

Regarding "500 TypeError", I can say that this is already known bug (internal ID is PPPM-14338).
Dist-upgrade in Plesk does not supporting updating/migration from mailman2 to mailman3. For now I do not have any additional information, will try to find what could be done to solve it.

BTW, mailman3 has a document about migration from mailman2 (Migrating from Mailman 2.1 to Mailman 3 — Mailman Suite 3.3 documentation). From my personal point of view, and if this option is available for you, I would recommend to deploy a new server with new Debian and migrate mailman to instead of dist-upgrade of existing server. And, of, course, makes sense to make a backup before any huge task like OS upgrading!

 

[blindzero]

Lack of built-in support HTTPS certificates and ARC headers for mailman2/3 in Plesk are known limitations of implementation for now (as well as supporting mailman3 only on two OSes).

We decided to start from this level of function because there is no degradation of functionality compared to mailman2; it allows customers to start switching to new OSes and mailman if they need to do that because of some reasons. Since 18.0.59 release, mailman3 on Debian11/12 OSes is officially supported by Plesk, it means if you have some issues with feature, you can contact with the Plesk Support team to get support.

Anyway, we have tasks to improve these aspect in the future, but currently, I can't say any ETA for that.

Hi @AYamshanov ,
thanks for that info but am I wrong or is mailman then not really usable?
Mailman Web will create always HTTPS / SSL errors in browsers and the default hiperkitty archive will create only errors as it cannot ignore the SSL errors as well :-(

 

[AYamshanov]

Regarding "500 TypeError", I can say that this is already known bug (internal ID is PPPM-14338).

FYI, PPPM-14338 is fixed in Plesk Obsidian 18.0.60.

 

[Jan]

Hello,

many thanks for including mailman3 in Plesk! I haven't had the time to check the support, yet, but I'm thinking about doing so in the next weeks. Some questions remain neverletheless.

1. What is a good strategy to migrate a Debian 10 server (including mailman2) to Debian 12 with mailman 3? I have read that dist-upgrade is not a good idea, whereas mailman has a 2 -> 3 migration guide. The latter confuses me, because it is plesk and not mailman that provides the source-of-truth for the documentation. Is there, for example, a way to export / backup the current installation, set up the server from scratch and import this again? Will mailman subscription-lists, mailinglists archive, etc. be imported and exported that way? Is there a better alternative?
2. I wonder why mailman's webinterface is not secured using a valid certificate. This is almost a show-stopper for me. I'm tempted to install a let's-encrypt / nginx-proxying system but I wonder why this is necessary in the first place. Do you know what is the underlaying problem?
3. Is missing ARC support a sever limitation? As of today, I'm using DKIM on fields that are not changed by mailman. Is it possible to keep using DKIM?

It'd be great if you could help me here,
Thanks in advance,
Jan

 

[AYamshanov]

We are moving gradually, step by step. For now, it was necessary to provide an alternative for mailman2 because of Ubuntu18 and CentOS7 (EOL). The current set of limitations for mailman3 is the same as it was in the past for mailman2. If we were to work on fixing all known limitations, it could seriously delay the mailman3 support, but we felt that earlier access to mailman3 was a higher priority.

We know about existing limitations (Mailing Lists), some of the should be addressed in the future (SSL, ARC). Currently, there are no ETAs.

At the moment, we note that there is insufficient demand for the automated migration tool. If you think the tool is necessary, you can support the request on UserVoice, Migration/conversion tool from Mailman 2 to 3.

If you find errors that do not allow you to manually migrate data according to the guide (Migrating from Mailman 2.1 to Mailman 3 — Mailman Suite 3.3 documentation), let us know, maybe we can resolve the problem with help of the Plesk community.

 

[Jan]

Hi,

many thanks for integrating mailman3 into plesk. I migrated the old data via plesk / backup-restore
All lists and subscribe were apparently migrated by doing so. Only a few problems remain.

I think it is better to address any backup/restore problems in a dedicated thread.

Regards, Jan