Plesk 7.5.4 Reloaded Beta is now Available

[Redah]

Originally posted by Artur
No Cranky, I read it right. To me this means that any new servers we build from now on will have a different file structure, which means differing paths on our help files, which means possible confusion during an emergency restore, and lots of other great things, like sites not being portable between machines and using PMM to move them back and forth.

what a pain in the ***. again.

Exactly... I even have a few scripts that rely on including files from /httpd/vhosts/sitename ... etc, you know how it works.

Doing something like this in a minor release is terrible. Do this in Plesk 8.0, something we all don't upgrade to immediately anyway.

Also the SELinux problems are already bugging me, I haven't been able to install PSA 7.5.4 on two different physical machines, and one virtual machine (all running Fedora Core 3). It simply craps out, and bugreport hasn't responded at all. And what am I doing that is so different? Nothing much (apart form SELinux maybe...)

1. I install FC3 minimal
2. I update all RPMs.
3. I install the RPM's that Plesk requires.
4. I try to install PSA. Then all hell breaks loose, first the dependencies (so I end up installing the SELinux RPM's it wants) and then it crashes on compiling something also having to do with SELinux. Great.

It's not something wildly different I'm doing, not at all. Again, it's a good thing we get to test out beta's, but I would appreciate some feedback so I don't get another heart attack when installing the new server with the final release.

 

[dm__@]

Why did not anyone mention making a symlink /home/httpd/vhosts -> /var/www/vhosts? It's an easy solution, AFAIU.

 

[fhosting]

Plesk 7.5.4 + CentOS 4.1 x86_64 bit

Can someone help to install Plesk 7.5.4 to CentOS 4.1 x86_64 bit?

Or when can be available instant package for CnetOS 4.1?

 

[Artur]

Originally posted by dm__
Why did not anyone mention making a symlink /home/httpd/vhosts -> /var/www/vhosts? It's an easy solution, AFAIU.

That's not a solution, it's a bandaid. I don't see any reason at ALL to move this directory away from /home. The current structure works and is fairly standard. If anything they should move it from /home/httpd/vhosts to /home.

 

[atomicturtle]

On partitions:
/boot you'd want to keep separate if you're using things like LVM and RAID, some motherboards still freak out if it cant find a boot sector in the first 1024 cylinders. Safety measure on my part, you never know.

/tmp and noexec... this is like rearranging deck chairs on the titantic. You'd need to mount /var/tmp, and /home noexec as well, which would in turn break all of cgi, attackers can drop code off into any writable directory. I see them using the users home directory just as often as /tmp, /var/tmp or /var/spool/mail these days. Check out grsecurity.net instead (or the commercial implementation I use in ASL), and the Trusted Path Execution policy. Its like noexecing the whole file system, by the user.

BTW, Fscking large journaled file systems doesn't take long at all, typically only a few seconds. Breaking the same disk up into multiple partitions would actually take longer to fsck since it would be maintaining multiple journals.

 

[dm__@]

Originally posted by Artur
That's not a solution, it's a bandaid. I don't see any reason at ALL to move this directory away from /home. The current structure works and is fairly standard. If anything they should move it from /home/httpd/vhosts to /home.

Please give me an example of recent distro having httpd DocumentRoot in /home.

And no one canceled FHS, after all.

And once, why do you think /home is preferred to /var/www?

 

[BoXie]

I think /home is the place for system-users. On a webhosting machine those users are the httpd customers .. and therefore /home would be the most logical place to have them store their stuff (also because FTP accounts and /etc/passwd/ would point to /home by default.).

The standard for 'www' seems to be /var/www/ nowadays ... but for FTP, shell , /etc/passwd it would still be /home. Also i think that /var/www is meant for single host / domainname machines .. not for virtual hosting storage.

Also in FHS documentation i cannot find /var/www as being the default place for httpd stuff ... /var/www is NOT DEFINED there.

For FHS compliance .. /srv would be the most obvious place i think (so maybe we have to move again next year ...

But i think this move has more to do with SE Linux issues then FHS.

 

[Artur]

Originally posted by dm__
Please give me an example of recent distro having httpd DocumentRoot in /home.

And no one canceled FHS, after all.

And once, why do you think /home is preferred to /var/www?

Look here is the point. Right now we have a lot of servers set up a certain way BECAUSE SWSOFT MADE US DO IT. I was prefectly happy keeping all my users in /usr/local/psa/home under plesk 1.3 and I didn't see an advantange to moving it then and I don't see one now. We went through a nightmarish migration when moving to the RPM based setup and I don't want to have to repeat it again on a whim of swsoft developers.

I don't know what you mean by FHS "after all" but I don't care to have to screw around with server administration for no good reason, when there is so much more I could be doing to bring in money.

This system is supposed to make things easier for us, not make us conform to some crazy standard which is not a standard at all.

 

[BoXie]

Glad i joined Plesk from v7.

/usr/local/psa/home would be the worst place ever i think to store user docs.

FHS = Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. It's a standard / guideline on how unix filesystems should be organised and used.

But again /var/www isnt in it. So FHS is not the reason for this change.

 

[atomicturtle]

I believe /var/www was from the Linux Standards Base.

 

[dm__@]

Originally posted by atomicturtle
I believe /var/www was from the Linux Standards Base.

Nope, there was no mention of /var/www in LSB. But... If we read FHS carefully, we'll see:

/home is a fairly standard concept, but it is clearly a site-specific filesystem. The setup will differ from host to host. Therefore, no program should rely on this location.

So /home is not the best dir to store data.

/opt and /var are most promising according to the data storage, and Plesk team selected the last one.

PS: anyway, they also should move Plesk from /usr/local to finish the "standartification" of directories. And as we've seen in Debian builds, this also might happen in the future

 

[atomicturtle]

Its good to see that not everyone is focused on needless nit-picking

 

[BoXie]

And it's a good thing that English is not my native language .. and i don't understand what you just said

 

[Hostasaurus@]

Originally posted by Artur
Look here is the point. Right now we have a lot of servers set up a certain way BECAUSE SWSOFT MADE US DO IT. I was prefectly happy keeping all my users in /usr/local/psa/home under plesk 1.3 and I didn't see an advantange to moving it then and I don't see one now. We went through a nightmarish migration when moving to the RPM based setup and I don't want to have to repeat it again on a whim of swsoft developers.

SWsoft did not make you do anything, have you not read the three posts telling you the one single file you need to modify to have it use the old location even for new installs?

 

[dm__@]

Originally posted by Hostasaurus
SWsoft did not make you do anything, have you not read the three posts telling you the one single file you need to modify to have it use the old location even for new installs?

It's too hard for some people to make one-liner with 'awk' inside

 

[Artur]

so the two of you geniuses trading smug comments have two or three servers that you administer? really if you don't understand what i'm saying here, maybe you should drop the ridicule and think about what will happen in two years from now when you have new servers with diverging architectures.

 

[garan]

Originally posted by jamesyeeoc


And no alias feature (full domain and email).

Ah well, I still have Total Domains...

Here here. I think this is something that all .uk hosting companies are crying out for. Most of my customers have the .co.uk and the .com domains. Email config especially is a pain.

James - When you refer to Total Domains, I'm assuming that you are talking about the 4psa product. Does it do domain email aliasing in Plesk?

Cheers,

Garan.

 

[jamesyeeoc]

Yes, the 4PSA Total Domains software. When they refer to domain 'parking' they are referring to both website and email aliasing combined.

 

[fhosting]

CentOS 4.1

Hello!
Is it possible to install Plesk 7.5.4 package for CentOS 3.3 to CentOS 4.1 server with 64 bit support?

Or, maybe someone know when can be available Pesk version for CentOS 4.1?

 

[hardweb]

You can not install it on these 64-bit OSes.